tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2828101829504518203.post4673155259982145818..comments2024-03-22T06:31:42.929-05:00Comments on Wry Thoughts About Religion: The Heresy that became OrthodoxyUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2828101829504518203.post-84087465029643990642021-11-22T09:42:23.618-06:002021-11-22T09:42:23.618-06:00Hello Dennis,
Thanks! Can't remember the last...Hello Dennis,<br /><br />Thanks! Can't remember the last time I even thought of the "no one is good except God" saying.<br /><br />Gene Stecher<br />Chambersburg, Pa.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2828101829504518203.post-64381827700299433882021-11-22T06:34:46.221-06:002021-11-22T06:34:46.221-06:00Thanks Denny,
I take you point and will add it to ...Thanks Denny,<br />I take you point and will add it to the list.<br />CharlieCharles Hedrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11285420936166236724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2828101829504518203.post-26953073141962908732021-11-21T10:03:08.788-06:002021-11-21T10:03:08.788-06:00These are helpful points. I don't think you me...These are helpful points. I don't think you mention Mark 10:18 where Jesus is addressed as "good teacher," which Jesus denies, saying "Why do you call me good? No one is good except for God alone." The Jesus Seminar voted it gray, but it may show that in Mark's time at least, someone thought it necessary to state that Jesus was not God.<br />Dennis MaherAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2828101829504518203.post-30355692815762012472021-11-19T13:51:08.148-06:002021-11-19T13:51:08.148-06:00Hi Charlie,
The only interpretation of the Trinit...Hi Charlie,<br /><br />The only interpretation of the Trinity, if such actually exists, that ever made sense to me is the behavioral one: God behaves as creator, redeemer, and counselor.<br /><br />Perhaps the earliest suggestion that Jesus had something in common with God is his identity as King of the Jews implied in Mark 15; Psalm 2 designates the kings of Israel as sons of God. <br /><br />Jesus got a further identity boost in Romans 1:1-6 where we are told that the resurrection gave him status as 'Son of God in power" as declared by "the Spirit of Holiness." I view this as probably an interpolation to Paul's original letter which possibly started at 1:7.<br /><br />To get to the above identities one must fight through all the scriptural designations of Son of God at baptism, at birth, being the Word or in the form of God from the beginning, etc., as well as the reaction to the Greco-Roman environment making Jesus a competitor to worshipping Caesar as God (See Crossan and Reed, In Search of Paul, 2004).<br /><br />Gene Stecher<br />Chambersburg, Pa. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2828101829504518203.post-54214430324784268402021-11-19T10:37:35.099-06:002021-11-19T10:37:35.099-06:00Good Morning Elizabeth,
1. I generally do not trus...Good Morning Elizabeth,<br />1. I generally do not trust ministers who are "true believers" and in all candidness avoid them as much as possible. I would not risk revealing myself to them. In the church we are now attending the previous interim minister recently left and the church now has a new interim minister. I come closer to having a good relationship with the previous interim minister than with any pastor I have had in the past or present.<br />2. This is a difficult and thorny question that has many sides to it. A pastor must minister to all sides of the political spectrum. If s/he aligns her/himself too closely to one side of a political issue s/he risks alienating the other side of the issue. In my experience ministers usually see this issue in terms of how would it affects the strength of the congregation: speak out too strongly on an unpopular issue and reduce the numbers in the congregation you serve, is how most would see the issue. All that said, a minister will pick and choose carefully the political positions for which s/he advocates. All that being said, to be true to his/her "calling," in my view, a minister must speak out on certain moral issues, which are usually political.<br />3. I would say that a "Holy Trinity" is a political response to a logical problem in early Christianity--but it is not the only possible response. You may be a heretic by the conventions of early and current Orthodoxy. But what you must remember is that the term heretic is what one side of a question calls those who disagree with him, while those on the other side are calling him the heretic. <br />Cordially,<br />Charlie Charles Hedrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11285420936166236724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2828101829504518203.post-86648880380524595892021-11-19T10:00:53.331-06:002021-11-19T10:00:53.331-06:00Good Morning Dennis,
Thank you for these citations...Good Morning Dennis,<br />Thank you for these citations and for pushing the discussion into the second and third centuries. I am struck by how close Ignatius's comments are to how John's Gospel reports the confession of Thomas. In many ways John reflects second century ideas, more so than middle first century.<br />Cordially,<br />CharlieCharles Hedrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11285420936166236724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2828101829504518203.post-39041940040835036252021-11-19T05:39:44.376-06:002021-11-19T05:39:44.376-06:00Charlie,
The development of the “identity” of Jesu...Charlie,<br />The development of the “identity” of Jesus is interesting. There seems to be confusion in the second and third centuries. Ignatius, of Antioch, seemed to have a couple of notions of the identity of Jesus Christ. He used the phrase “Jesus Christ our God” in the Ephesians salutation, “...who is God in man” (7.2), and “...our God, Jesus the Christ (18.2). He used “Jesus Christ our God” again twice in the Romans salutation and “... our God, Jesus Christ” (3.3). In Smyrnaeans 1.1 it is “Jesus Christ the God.” In other passages, however, sometimes close to these, he identified God as the Father, and spoke of the birth of Jesus and Jesus as the son. He has a nifty metaphor: He links parishioners (stones of the temple), God (the building), Jesus (the engine/cross) and Holy Spirit (as rope) in Eph. 9.1, but doesn’t knit the three into one. <br /><br />I think it is probable that different groups in different areas had differing views. Justin Martyr, Apology, 1.61, Ignatius (above), The Shephard of Hermas, Similitude Five, 6.5-7, Irenaeus, AH 1.2, The Gospel of Truth, 10.7-8, from A New New Testament (In other translations, like Layton or Robinson, 24), Athenagorus’ Plea, 10, Tertullian, Against Praxeas, 2, and others have their own takes defining what or who Jesus was that seem to be early attempts at defining Jesus. Metaphor comes to mind in those, too, which seems a clue to the development of what became a “literal” statement of faith.<br /><br />Dennis Dean Carpenter<br />Dahlonega, Ga. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2828101829504518203.post-60130466261377152432021-11-18T19:03:48.212-06:002021-11-18T19:03:48.212-06:00Charlie, how do you compare your pastor at the Kan...Charlie, how do you compare your pastor at the Kansas City church you now attend with the church you attended in Springfield? Do you have a preference for one or another? Anything stand out to you overall?<br /><br />My neighbor just recently told me about her pastor (she also attends a Baptist church here in St. Louis) asking the entire congregation to stand up and pray with him for the leaders of our nation and its present "crisis." Do you have a problem with preachers speaking out on political issues?<br /><br />My understanding is that the entire concept of a "Holy Trinity" is a pagan concept... There's no other way to see it, in my view. I guess I'm a heretic. ElizabethElizabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07407263133805266418noreply@blogger.com