tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2828101829504518203.post1451930160215972267..comments2024-03-22T06:31:42.929-05:00Comments on Wry Thoughts About Religion: what should be done about EVIL IN THE WORLD?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2828101829504518203.post-66851922936626334042013-09-01T21:40:06.404-05:002013-09-01T21:40:06.404-05:00Charles,
I agree with you and with DeWaal.
Thank...Charles,<br /><br />I agree with you and with DeWaal.<br /><br />Thanks for your comments. You are a very fine teacher, but then you have had a long history of teaching. What better, i.e. meaningful way to spend one's life.<br /><br />JimAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2828101829504518203.post-56598474923314556152013-08-30T14:22:41.537-05:002013-08-30T14:22:41.537-05:00Hi Jim,
I think I would have described human being...Hi Jim,<br />I think I would have described human beings as mammals since there are six classifications of "animal." And I agree with you about the religious term sin (it is God specific). You will notice that I did not use it in the essay, choosing instead to use the word evil to describe deliberate malicious acts against other human beings. And I don't believe I even hinted that evil was directed against God. I limited evil specifically to human beings, but I may have to reconsider that since one author tracks humanism-like characteristics to primates (De Waal, The Bonobo and the Atheist [Norton, 2013).<br />CharlieCharles Hedrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11285420936166236724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2828101829504518203.post-51946505773890860972013-08-30T06:12:04.683-05:002013-08-30T06:12:04.683-05:00Charlie,
Humans are no more than the highest form ...Charlie,<br />Humans are no more than the highest form of animals. Evil in humans is the same as in say lions who kill for food, territory, threats, the pride, off springs, mates, and sometimes just because they can. Human brains allow for even more complex actions than lions just as lion are more developed than bacteria or viruses, both of the latter harming more than most humans or lions. Human societies generally don't charge bacteria, viruses or lions with sin. Fortunately, human brains development allows for significant development of social awareness, and thus capable to learn to minimize harm to others. Certainly not guaranteed, but possible. The idea of good and bad spirits outside of humans influencing human behavior is ignorant superstition passed down for thousands of years and still widely believed. <br /><br />Jim Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2828101829504518203.post-91263665220145359972013-03-22T22:40:25.935-05:002013-03-22T22:40:25.935-05:00Good Morning Marcia,
Thanks for the reply, and you...Good Morning Marcia,<br />Thanks for the reply, and your plug for Bart’s book. You write “whether [ evil’s] origins are human or supernatural is moot.” If by “moot” you mean something like “purely academic”—like how many angels can stand at the same time on the head of a pin (an actual Middle Ages scholarly debate), I think I disagree. How one answers the question about the origins of evil will determine one’s view of reality and that will make a difference in how they live their lives, or at least that has been the historical response to the question. In part religion as an ancient and modern institution owes its origin and influence to how people answer the question—and perhaps even the science of psychiatry as well in part is concerned with the question. <br /><br />I am still struggling with the book. The Greek, written from the Greek island of Skiathos near the turn of the last century, is mixed (modern and Koine), and the vocabulary is virtually all new to me—all of which makes for a difficult read.<br /><br />Cordially,<br />Charlie<br />Charles Hedrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11285420936166236724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2828101829504518203.post-79130897416214671492013-03-19T23:30:12.835-05:002013-03-19T23:30:12.835-05:00Charlie, are you asking whether or not there is ev...Charlie, are you asking whether or not there is evil in the world, or is it a question of who or what causes evil? Just looking at the events of the past century should convince anyone of the existence of evil. As to its cause, if one believes that God is omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent, then there can be no question that God causes, or at the very least, allows evil. But there's the conundrum: how can a perfect, loving God allow evil? Christians use the doctrine of free will and a modified dualism to "answer" this, but I don't find this a very satisfactory answer. I find it equally as hard to find a satisfactory response in science. I certainly have no answer, but I do believe it exists. Whether its origins are human or supernatural is moot; I just hope I have enough wisdom to recognize it when it appears and the integrity and character to confront it. Sorry to plug another author's work, but I just finished reading Bart Ehrman's "God's Problem" on this subject and recommend it.<br /><br />By the way, have you gotten through "The Murderess"? I struggled with it in English.<br /><br />MarciaMarcia Morrisetnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2828101829504518203.post-43392056233467044442013-03-19T11:58:12.783-05:002013-03-19T11:58:12.783-05:00Hi Charlie,
If we're talking only about the g...Hi Charlie,<br /><br />If we're talking only about the good and evil that we humans commit, then it seems to me that we don't need to go beyond ourselves to find the reasons for our actions. And this is consistent with the way we run our judicial system: Criminals who are caught are normally held responsible for their crimes.<br /><br />Peace,<br /><br />LeeLee Penyanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2828101829504518203.post-61163369595363297852013-03-19T11:12:45.039-05:002013-03-19T11:12:45.039-05:00Good Morning Jim,
My comments are meant for you, R...Good Morning Jim,<br />My comments are meant for you, Roger, and Lee. You and Roger seem to agree that evil originates from within human beings (i.e., there is no devil to make us do bad things), but Lee seems to change the subject to “free will.” I assume he raises that issue in the context of the issue of evil, but his observation seems to rule out any influence from supernatural forces both good and evil. Let me push you guys a bit: Lee can you be a bit more precise? Where do you come down of the origin of evil in the world? And for all of you: are we alone in the universe bereft of any supernatural forces to influence us to good or to evil? So good and or evil in the world is only the result of human motivations?<br />CharlieCharles Hedrickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11285420936166236724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2828101829504518203.post-76797259841389180352013-03-17T04:00:34.812-05:002013-03-17T04:00:34.812-05:00There is a huge desire to make evil external. I al...There is a huge desire to make evil external. I always think of the warning in Genesis 4, "6The Lord said to Cain, ‘Why are you angry, and why has your countenance fallen? 7If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is lurking at the door; its desire is for you, but you must master it.’" <br /><br />We would like to say that sin is hiding behind the door, waiting to jump me but I find no realistic escape from the fact that evil is entirely within us. Sometimes we do evil things for personal gain, for power, promotions or even for revenge. What I find even more curious is how often, and honestly I see it in church more than anywhere else, people will hurt someone just because they can. Perhaps it gives them a sense of importance or superiority but often they lose a friend in the process and are much worse off because of it but I have seen it so often that I am no longer surprised by it but I am still perplexed. <br /><br />Hurting people who are doing you no harm must serve some evolutionary goal but I can't imagine what it is. But a devil..... not in a spiritual real but in the flesh for sure. <br /><br />Roger Ray, D.Min. <br />Posted on 3/13/2013 at 12:33pmRoger Raynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2828101829504518203.post-36763100383612287482013-03-17T03:58:41.006-05:002013-03-17T03:58:41.006-05:00Hi Charlie:
If what Flip Wilson says is true, th...Hi Charlie: <br /><br />If what Flip Wilson says is true, then this seems to raise the question whether we humans really have our oft-cherished free will after all. Of course, I think this is also true if everything that happens is determined by God or occurs according to God's will. <br /><br />Regards, <br />Lee <br /><br>Posted on 3/13/2013 at 12:38pm<br />Lee Penyanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2828101829504518203.post-26452015843040949732013-03-17T03:57:38.712-05:002013-03-17T03:57:38.712-05:00Hello Charlie,
Even Mt 18:7 finds that malicious...Hello Charlie, <br /><br />Even Mt 18:7 finds that malicious evil will always be present: "Woe to the world for temptations to sin. For it is necessary that temptations come, but woe to the man by whom the temptation comes." <br /><br />I happen to find that this verse is close to what Jesus actually said. If so, why is it necessary that temptations, including malicious evil, come? As per Roger Ray, the latter arises through ignorance, greed, lust for power and lack of ethics, as through unawareness of the Golden Rule. And ignorance of right from wrong exists until it is gradually replaced by increased wisdom, which I believe is synonymous with developing one's conscience. <br /><br />So, those who believe in evolution of one's spirit or of one's consciousness can find purpose in temptations to sin. The latter can cause us to make mistakes (sin) and then learn from our mistakes, all of which comprises spiritual evolution. This then would be its evolutionary purpose, although its evolutionary goal would include the reduction of malicious evil to a bare minimum. If Jesus had this in mind, it would not have been expressed within the Gospels, unless through careless editing of an original source. The Gospel writers would need to have weeded out such material from Jesus' teachings because it was Jesus/God that was supposed to be our savior from sin, not our own individual human spirits. Hence I believe that ignorance and poverty of spirit (lack of sufficient spiritual development) are what "made me do it," not the Devil. <br />Jim Deardorff<br />Posted on 3/14/2013 at 11:29amJim Deardorffnoreply@blogger.com